Interview with Professor David Wilson

Exploring the Minds of Serial Killers and the Discipline of Criminology

Dec 28, 2024

One of the most rewarding aspects of launching All-About-Psychology.com in 2008 has been the opportunity to connect with and interview leading experts across a diverse range of psychological and behavioral fields. Thanks to Substack, I can now share these compelling conversations with a new audience of readers.

In 2018, I had the privilege of interviewing Professor David Wilson, an eminent criminologist whose work is as captivating as it is impactful. This particular interview held special interest for me, given my own background in teaching forensic psychology.

Professor David Wilson is an Emeritus Professor of Criminology at Birmingham City University. Before entering academia, he served in the prison service at facilities such as Grendon, Wormwood Scrubs, and Woodhill in Milton Keynes. During this time, he designed and managed two specialized units for the country’s 12 most violent prisoners—a role that brought him face-to-face with nearly every notable British serial killer in recent history. At just 29, Wilson became the youngest prison governor in the UK, a testament to his extraordinary expertise and leadership.

Beyond his professional work, Professor Wilson has made significant contributions to both academic research and public understanding of crime. He has authored over 50 peer-reviewed articles, published in journals like The Howard Journal of Criminal Justice, Crime Media Culture, and The Journal of Investigative Psychology and Offender Profiling.

A trusted voice in the media, Professor Wilson frequently shares his expert insights in print and on UK television. He has appeared on programs such as Channel 4's Interview with a Murderer and Channel 5’s David Wilson’s Psychopaths, where his incisive commentary sheds light on complex criminal behaviors.

Professor Wilson is also a prolific author, with numerous books exploring crime, punishment, and the psychology of serial killers. His gripping professional memoir, My Life with Murderers: Behind Bars with the World’s Most Violent Men, published in 2021, offers readers a fascinating glimpse into his extraordinary career and the lives of some of the most dangerous individuals in the UK.

Here’s the Q&A.

What first sparked your interest in the field of criminology?

I was always interested in how some behaviours became labelled as “crime” and yet very similar behaviours were often regarded as aspirational. I played rugby and my behaviour on the pitch was often very aggressive, violent and caused injury to other people and yet exactly the same behaviour in the street – usually committed by boys who weren’t as privileged as I was – led inexorably to prison! I was intrigued by this process and so I joined HM Prison Service as a Prison Governor. It wasn’t a very easy transition from being a student to being a Governor!

You describe criminology as a rendezvous subject. What do you mean by this?

Criminology is a wonderful academic discipline which traces its roots from a number of other academic disciplines. Most obviously it has a relationship with Sociology and Psychology but it is also different from these subjects. So too it has roots in History, Law and Anthropology (to name just the most obvious subjects) and yet it is not any of these disciplines. Instead it is a subject where these various disciplines meet – a place where they rendezvous – and hence my use of that description. I think that this is why Criminology is an interesting and challenging discipline.

Why do you recommend that students who want to study criminology read 'The Man who Mistook His Wife for a Hat' by Oliver Sacks?

Sacks’s book presents case studies of how the brain can have a very marked impact on how we think and behave. I think that this is a good way of introducing students to the idea that people are biological beings – that we are flesh and blood – and as a consequence how we can behave in extraordinary ways – including committing crime.

What is a criminological autopsy?

This is a means by which I try to make sense of a crime scene. I try to immerse myself into the space, place and time in which a crime gets committed. This will always involve me visiting the site where a crime took place and trying to make an imaginative leap into that crime scene.

Of all the serial killers you have worked with and written about, which one left the greatest impression and why?

Dennis Nilsen was the first serial killer that I ever met and my discussions with him have had the biggest impact on me. Serial killers rarely speak about the murders which they have committed but Nilsen was different - he spoke to me endlessly about what he had done!

In terms of thinking about and trying to explain serial killing, you note that there are two major academic traditions; the medical-psychological tradition and the structural tradition. Could you briefly explain the difference between the two?

The Medical- Psychological tradition tries to make sense of the phenomenon of serial murder by thinking about the psychology of the serial killer – what drives them to kill? On the other hand, the structural tradition – which my own writing forms a part – seeks to understand serial murder more from thinking about which groups, and at what time fall victim to serial murder.

It is surely more than passing interest that British serial killers have targeted just five groups of people – four of those groups are dominated by women and only one group of men (gay men) are recurring targets of serial killers. So, if we adopted a public policy based on eradicating what makes these groups vulnerable to attack, we could eventually eliminate serial murder.

Could you tell us about your involvement with and the thinking behind the CBS Reality series Voice of a Serial Killer?

I made this series with David Howard and Rik Hall of Monster Films. I had previously worked with them on the award-winning documentary Interview with a Murderer. I wanted to work with David and Rik again because I felt that we could introduce the audience to a better understanding of what it is drives people to kill.

What's the best piece of advice you can think of for someone who wants to become a criminologist?

Go and visit your local Magistrates’ or Crown Court!

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Interview with Professor David Wilson

Exploring the Minds of Serial Killers and the Discipline of Criminology

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